Sunday, August 05, 2007

Odex letter updates


I promised that I would post an update on the odex letter thing if I found other interesting links so here it is.

I found this another guy who got the dreaded odex letter, http://milktm.blogspot.com/. Basically, he had to pay around SGD2000 and odex allowed him to pay in instalments of SGD125 per month for 16 months. I couldn't find individual links to his posts so I've copied it all here- the interesting post is the email correspondant between him and odex's legal team:


Wednesday, July 18, 2007

fuck fuCK FUCK!!!!! Y MUST EVERYTHING CAME IN AT THE SAME TIME! no money to spend, manager wan mi go back orchard work, kena summon for downloading anime, maple cant hack, schwork flang eventhough i noe everything which i dun even noe y. Y!!! FUCK!!!!! wad should i do...? i told my mum i downloading anime now kena summon and maybe will fine 10k she still look like nth happened.. wad should i do...? i juz called to tok bout the downloading anime and the in-charge is away, will call back later till now havnt call yet. haiz.. so stress.. wo zhen de hao lei. wo hen luan.

Monday, July 23, 2007

received the letter of appeal le. its approved. but gotta pay an amount of $3360. its too much! i wrote back replying tat i unable to pay the amount. and i find tat its suspicious the letter! i was wondering, y cant it be this infomation leak out to others? suspicious, isnt it? some more the letter is one address which is 16th floor. and the other one is 25th floor. so weird? see how he reply till then juz wait. got a feeling tat they trying to cheat money. pay by cash to odex PTE LTD? weird weird.

Tuesday, July 24, 2007

Re: illegal download?
From: legal (legal@odex.com.sg)
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:26:08 AM
To: ken xiong (roan_kun@hotmail.com)

Hi Ken Xiong, Please arrange to meet us again then, we'll need document proof of your family's finanicial situation to help you appeal to the panel again.

Stephen Sing
Odex

-----Original Message-----
From: ken xiong roan_kun@hotmail.com
To: legal@odex.com.sg
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:21:37 +0800
Subject: illegal download
> > my family were unable to pay the amount. is there any alternative
> method?

Saturday, August 4, 2007

ok long time no update. really damn busy. been studying bout XNA. used to make Xbox games de program. so damn freaking many codes to study. but so far can make one person fall aslp. l0l! mi and my fren we both do till wanna slp. =x then thurs stay at sch do till like 9+ then reached home. and 10pm dota till midnite than orh orh.

fri woke up go sch and got fiesta till evening then went down to odex to pay the sum and went to JX find ryan take harry potter de booK! then ah wei, dora and uncle jake oso there. l0l! stay there tok tok awhile then come home..reached home 9+ liao. then went to dota till midnite orh orh.

sat woke up went to sch for the fiesta oso, till evening then came back. be4 coming home went to cuzzies house to do printing of NS document. coz i no printer. T_T l0l. then help them to do protection for their comp and home sweep home! walk from their house to my house slowly strolling and when i reached home i saw my fone got 3msges and i onli take 30mins to reach home. =x l0l! reached home take a bath eat and stay infront of comp chat chat till now. then updating blog. l0l! =D


This is one of his messages on the chatbox in his blog:
31 Jul 07, 21:06
X|oNg: oh.. i got fined 2k and pay monthly of $125 for 16months to complete. i said got financial problem then show them the prove.






Another blog I found is http://inefivitic.blogspot.com/. Once again, I couldn't find a direct link so here is his post on receiving the odex letter.

Sunday, July 29, 2007

finally a long post after a month. this is a serious issue.

received a letter from Odex Pte Ltd stating that i downloaded certain anime and that i have to go down to their company to settle it. (the letter was addressed to my dad, cause the broadband line is under his name, but obviously i did the downloading)

so they have my ip and my personal info. like address and stuff (NOTE: i wonder how they got it, seeing that in America you'd have to go through the courts to get a subpoena for personal info. and in some cases, the courts reject their appeals for a subpoena. in America.) they say if i dont go down by one week, they would press charges. in other words, sue me. lol. it's the A's in 3 months time so i dont fancy getting sue by some hotshot company who wants to earn money through sending letters and fining people. apparently, anime-watchers term it the odex letter of death. LOL. it's kinda funny. so yeah, prolly going down on monday, which is a waste of my holiday though. hope to settle it quickly.

as much as i'd like to continue anime watching, im prolly stopping it. and i urge people to stop it too. it's not that i support odex or anything, i just want less people to get into shit. and if odex did use the money to improve their said shitty quality of anime releases in singapore(though i have no idea whether their anime quality has improved), i wouldnt mind. but people on the net are speculating that they are just doing this to earn money. well, OBVIOUSLY downloading is WRONG. heck, it's just a matter of time before someone is caught. but look into it deeper, like what many people on the net have said again, odex doesnt do shit about engaging the anime community in singapore, nor does it reply people who have attempted to contact them by any means. well, someone i talked to said that protecting piracy and earning money are not much of a difference, and that protecting piracy is not much higher up on the moral ladder, but i believe that the starting point counts. one really wonders if they really intend to stop piracy, or just wanna earn money since their anime releases apparently dont make shit. i just spent 3 hours on this whole issue, and it's really interesting.

conclude.
1. odex is trying to stop all this downloading of anime and stuff which is illegal.
2. many people have already paid fines.
3. many people are complaining on the net that they are milking downloaders off. ie. no true intention of stopping piracy.
4. point 3 is so because there's little media coverage on this issue. the fine prolly deters only the downloader. posting it on the net (discussing this issue, trying to relate your personal experience with odex etc) doesnt deter others and may even encourage some to download more. o.O lol @ the latter
5. odex should really do something to show they are KEEN on stopping this anime "piracy"
6. show how they obtained the personal info of downloaders (key issue which is being speculated upon)
7. present themselves in a more appropriate manner, one that reflects a proper company, instead of having a website that says "under construction" for several months, so it seems.
8. address the public on this issue, and reply queries that have been sent to them, instead of sitting on it.
9. all these speculation is because they dont go public about the situation, which makes these downloaders think they are victimising them. inform the public instead of acting so mysteriously(refer to how they obtain personal info)
10. WHY DONT WE HAVE A FREE CHANNEL WITH ALL THE ANIME!!!!!! :(( sighs. no more anime.

im fucking tired. spent 3 whole hours sourcing for shit. people i talked to thought it was a scam initially, but we're convinced now that it is true. and that i'm have to face the music.

well, to all readers, if i have any left.

TELL YOUR FRIENDS WHO DOWNLOAD ANIME TO STOP DOWNLOADING. OR IF YOU DO IT TOO, STOP IT. FOR YOUR OWN SAKE. DON'T MAKE YOURSELF GO THROUGH WHAT I HAVE TO GO THROUGH. GOD BLESS ME.

2:47 AM







I mentioned before about how Tsubaki went redundant? Well, he started some posts again and an interesting point came up which is the issue of streaming animes from sites like youtube. Somewhere in the comments, this guy called Soulshift says that streaming anime constitutes copyright infringement:

Tsubaki, KINDLY STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION ABOUT COPYRIGHT LAW. You are going to get your poor readers and likely yourself in trouble.

Streaming of an infringing, copyrighted video program is an infringing act. I quote section 38A of the Singapore Copyright Act:
“Temporary reproduction made in course of communication
Subject to subsection (3), the copyright in a work is not infringed by the making of a temporary or transient reproduction of the work if
(a) the reproduction is made incidentally as part of the technical process of making or receiving a communication; and
(b) the act of making the communication itself does not constitute an infringement.”

All right, sounds cool so far, right? Streaming is part of the technical process of receiving a communication, so you’re in the clear, right? WRONG!

“(3) Subsections (1) and (2) SHALL NOT APPLY to the making of a temporary or transient reproduction of a work, or an adaptation of a work, if the reproduction of the work or adaptation that is communicated —

(a) is an INFRINGING COPY of the work or adaptation; or

(b) is a reproduction that, if it had been made in Singapore, would have been an infringing copy of the work or adaptation.”

ERGO, SINCE THE YOUTUBE COPY IS ALREADY AN INFRINGING COPY, STREAMING IT IS ALSO AN INFRINGING ACT.

~~~ STREAMING INFRINGING CONTENT IS AN INFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHT ~~~~

QED.

Read it for yourself:
(http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_getdata.pl?actno=2006-REVED-63&doctitle=COPYRIGHT%20ACT%0A&date=latest&method=part&segid=1138345605-001134#1138345605-001482)



The post is dated 24th July 07, WHOA! I’M BACK?






A recent thread from Singapore HardwareZone forum about someone who received the odex letter:
1st August 2007, Kena Odex Letter.......

This is another newspaper article from The New Paper, 2nd August 2007, which someone posted on the thread (I'm still trying to find the rest of the article).

EDIT: found the rest of the article on the New Paper website. Not sure whether this link will be accessible indefinitely so I'll just copy it here:


THE 9-year-old was caught illegally downloading Japanese anime online.


Now, the child's parents have received a letter from Japanese animated cartoons distributor Odex telling them to go the company's office to discuss the matter, if they don't want to face legal proceedings.

Similar letters were first sent out in May, when the company began cracking down on local Internet users who had been illegally downloading the cartoons.

Odex imports popular anime titles, such as Bleach, Inuyasha and D.Gray-man, from Japan.

Since May, the company has found the culprits to be mostly students. The youngest was just 9.

Mr Stephen Sing, one of Odex's directors, told The New Paper that though they had expected the bulk of illegal downloaders to be students, they didn't expect them to be so young.

When Odex sent out its first batch of 17 letters, it also posted warnings on anime forums against illegal downloading.

But these were 'not taken seriously', Mr Sing said.

He said they began sending out legal letters on a 'much greater scale' in June, catching many illegal downloaders by surprise. He declined to reveal the number of letters sent.

It is unclear whether all recipients were penalised, but Odex confirmed that it had taken action against some offenders.

One Sec 3 student, who declined to be named, said he received a letter from Odex in June. He was made to pay more than $3,000 in reimbursement to Odex. His parents had to cough up the amount.

He said: 'I was shocked that they had been able to track all my downloading activities from as early as March.'

The boy's father, a 47-year-old businessman, said that though he was shocked by the hefty penalty, he wasn't surprised.

He said: 'I think my son has learnt his lesson.

'However, I think more has to be done to educate parents on these Internet-related issues as well.'

The student added that though he had seen some warning posts on online forums about illegal downloading, he thought it 'wasn't that easy' to be caught.

He said: 'I heard from friends that if I downloaded anime using a particular peer-to-peer file sharing protocol, it would be difficult to track.'

Peer-to-peer file sharing allows users to download files in small information packets from multiple users, instead of a single source.

MISCONCEPTION

This is a dangerous misconception, Mr Sing said.

He said: 'There are ways to track downloading activities very easily.' He declined to elaborate.

In a copy of one letter sent to an illegal downloader obtained by The New Paper, the user was sent a list of files which he had illegally downloaded since March.

Mr Sing said that the company was meeting with each recipient of the warning letters.

Lawyers hired by Odex will determine the penalties, if any, on a case-by-case basis.

'Most of the Internet account holders are these students' parents who knew nothing about their children downloading anime. They were shocked,' he said.

He said that the company is in touch with the anime clubs of various schools and have given them notices to help students be better-informed.

Under the Copyright Act, users found guilty of wilful and significant downloads face fines of up to $20,000 and up to six months in jail.

The Act does not specify what constitutes a significant number of downloads.




odex



This is YorYor's comments on the legality of the whole odex letter and its pay-now-or-face-you-in-court approach.
Posted on June 2nd, 2007:
The Fine City, Mentality and Education.


Another blogger I found who emailed the writer of the Straits Time article on Odex letter and anime downloading clamp-down:
June 02, 2007: I emailed a Straits Times Journalist...


6 Comments:

Anonymous Belela-san said...

That is just sad :(
I will keep downloading anime because in my country anime in television is rare or non-existing, even shops don't sell good anime dvds, mostly are old ones. So if anyone here wants to watch anime we'll have to download it, screw anyone who comes advertising me about illegal downloads for I won't pay a dime to them since I can't get this stuff on tv.

8/8/07 8:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tell me about it. They don't even give you warnings to ask you to stop. They just dig the torrent files u've downloaded mths ago and tell u to pay or they sue u for 10K SGD per article. They targeted at teens. This could be coincidence but it's speculated that teens are easier to scare. If this is not call milking money, I don't know what else it is.

9/8/07 2:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will just continue downloading. One thing for sure, its bad business for odex. They may win in the short run, but in the long run, they will suffer in terms of business.

The argument goes like this:
Singapore's market for anime, manga and any related goods is due to the illegal downloading. The whole craze started from illegal downloads appearing on the internet. Refering to a straits times article probably a year back, the naruto fans interviewed said they watched the anime online. Although naruto was not licensed at that time so technically it was legal, it is not the point here. The point is that such online downloads create the market. On a personal level, the only reason i and my friends buy the legal anime dvds was because we thought the anime itself was good. Of course, for myself, i have networked with various anime groups in Singapore from our local universities and colleges and found out that the members were aware of the various anime titles only due to the presence of the illegal downloads, which initiated their curiousity in the first place. Simply put, without the illegal downloads, there is no incentive for fans to go and look for various anime titles to watch, and no awareness created. Without the awareness, people will stop buying anime and their related goods because they 1. Do not know what it is about, 2. Do not know whether it is good or not, 3. They are not a fan.

Basically, odex is just stabbing themselves and the rest of the market. Whether they themselves know about, depends on how smart they actually are.

Of course, it would not stop the piracy. Our neighbours like malaysia offer illegal dvds of anime at cheap prices.

Also, i am very concerned of their invasion to our privacy over the internet. If they are going to search our computers and look at our stuff, it doesnt telly with our human rights.

I accept any criticism to my argument.

12/8/07 11:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

for what high internet broadband speed if everything is illegal in downloading.... better use 56k

16/8/07 9:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First, apologies if I look like spamming.

join reverse-odex move join xedo forces.
http://xedodefense.org/

17/8/07 3:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What service provider did you use? This question is for those who have received the odex letter. We should start warning one and another.

12/12/07 4:06 PM  

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